mscherer
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Post by mscherer on Jan 18, 2012 7:53:28 GMT -5
Folks, Fast on the heels of Spielberg's WWI epic, War Horse, I give you A Soldier's Honor. Logline: During World War I a young Quaker experiences the reality of war and struggles to remain true to his peaceful values. Take no prisoners! Attachments:
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oz
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by oz on Jan 18, 2012 12:00:59 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this, Mike, and I'm not a big war movie fan. I'll give you my line notes and then my impressions:
Pg 1-3 Terrific visual writing. Love the lack of dialogue here. You're showing us so much of Henry's character without saying a word. FABULOUS stuff.
Pg 7 & 8 At times the lack of active verbs is distracting: Henry spins -- watches: Stoney HOLSTER his colt... It's grammatically correct but it can slow the reading down. Also..." plops on his cot. CRADLE his head..." Still a great read, just slows it down for me. I did notice, though, that I didn't see much more of that for the rest of the script so perhaps those two just need a slight adjustment to keep the flow going.
Pg 9 @ talk of Henry killing deer, perhaps you should drop the "A man ain't." "Deer's food" tells us everything.
Pg 10 God's going to be awfully busy---GREAT line, GREAT runner.
Pg 13 I believe you need a hyphen at '...lice-filled heads'
Pg 24 Did I miss the Act I turning point? This may need to be stronger. Perhaps getting to 'hear' some of the strong opinions of Henry's parents would help here. Maybe Koz reads the letter and can't believe they're expecting this from their son---who's a soldier!
Pg 26 ...sporadic gunfire fracture the silence... VERY nice.
Pg 27 ...corpse jumps like a spastic marionette.... VERY NICE
Pg 30 'We've been seeing each other for two months now..." Reads clunky. How about....These last two months have, well, I think about you every day.
Pg 31 Need immediate medical attention....I'd drop 'medical'. Same impact, less clunky.
Pg 39 @ No man's land...Perhaps change the "..AND crawl.." opening sentence to "...THEY crawl..." Didn't read right for me.
Pg 53 Great scene w/French soldier. Shows character arc perfectly.
Pg 55 I didn't like Henry's "..supposed to be against violence" line. Too on the nose. Perhaps just let Koz's line say it.
Pg 61 I don't think you need the ellipsis at Henry's "I know what I am."
Pg 64 Koz's last line reads clunky. Perhaps--- Make sure I don't run in to find your scrawny butt in the mud some night.
Pg 74 When Carson leaves, I'd suggest Carson waves off the deep conversation and drop his last line to let Henry's hang heavy.
Pg 83 Henry's "Let him walk" is WONDERFUL. Arc is well on it's way, especially with the follow up with the dead bird.
So, overall, I thought it was an excellent example of a MOVIE vs a TALKIE ; ) Great visual writing, great pacing, terrific character distinctions and a really excellent us of jargon/authentic verbiage. It put you there in trenches. I still think the 1st act turning point needs a little nudge so it stands out more but the only thing I could offer, like I said, was perhaps hearing the judgment from back home via the letter.
Hope that helps. Thanks for the fun ride! Look forward to more of your terrific pages, Mike.
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oz
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by oz on Jan 18, 2012 12:12:00 GMT -5
It's me again ; ) Forgot to include an observation...
At the big act 2 turning point, it might be more moving to have Henry join up with some of the real bad asses of the unit for the German stand off. That might make Carsen's actions even more compelling, Henry's arc more compelling and be more visually coherent when we move back to Henry feeling alone. Just a thought.
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Post by clayjs on Jan 18, 2012 13:16:11 GMT -5
Just downloaded. You're in my queue. Looking forward to it.
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mscherer
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Post by mscherer on Jan 20, 2012 6:06:30 GMT -5
Oz,
Thanks so much for reading and providing extensive notes. I respect your opinion greatly and will attempt to fix as time permits.
Thanks again...
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Post by clayjs on Jan 24, 2012 22:13:38 GMT -5
Mscherer,
Just read your script and I really enjoyed it. There aren't a lot of movies about the First World War, so the setting read as very fresh and interesting.
Let me begin by saying I don't generally take notes the first time I read a manuscript, because I like to get a feel for the piece as a whole before I start giving specific advice. Therefore, these notes are more impressions then specific references, unless something stood out enough that I went back and looked it up. Because of this, I'm occasionally completely off-base. When you post a subsequent draft, or if you want me to look at this one again, I'll get specific. Also, I'm just learning here, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt and refer back to your experience and expertise to determine if any of my notes are valid.
First, it seems to me that you have gotten quick, direct action blocks down to a science. It's always very clear exactly what's happening, and I was never bogged down in useless description. On the flip side of that, however, some of your more conversational scenes read tense for me because the action goes by so quickly. While it's certainly a point for debate, it seems to me that you can build a little more atmosphere in some scenes (the scenes between Henry and Brie, for example) by deliberately slowing them down and making them a LITTLE more wordy.
Now to the hard part. I found myself really, actively disliking your protagonist (and his girlfriend). While I can’t be sure if this is a problem with the script or a problem with me, most of this post will be my reasons for it, where I feel things fall apart, and suggestions on how to fix it.
The piece's morality wasn't completely clear to me. Henry is a pacifist at the beginning, but it isn't clear to me that pacifism is an actual conviction for him rather than just a tenant of his parents' religion, and while I kept expecting that to be cleared up, his actions in Act II made that even more fuzzy for me, and I'm still not sure how the resolution relates to that aspect of his personality.
Specifically: We have a lot of buildup -- he tries to help the German soldier rather than killing him, etc., but then when the drunken Frenchman tries to rape Brie he pounds his face in without a second thought. It just doesn't ring true for me, especially for someone who ACTUALLY BELIEVES violence is wrong. Then, in the next scene, there's a throwaway line where Henry says "I promised Brie I would never hurt anyone...ever again." and Koslovsky comes back with an "Again?", but there's never a pay-off for that. Does he have some kind of history of this kind of behavior?
Which brings me to Henry's arc in general: He is a pacifist so his soldier friends hate him, then he beats a guy up and Brie hates him, then he turns into a badass and his family hates him, then what? He goes back to his medical unit, but is he a pacifist again? Has he learned that violence is necessary sometimes? Brie obviously doesn't believe that, so if that's the case, isn't it a little unfair for her to end up married to him? I'm not sure I understand what the problems are in his character that the script addresses. He changed, maybe, but I'm not sure he arced. In fact, I liked him better at the beginning, when he had convictions, or at least appeared to.
Brie's part in everything is a little unclear to me as well. I was completely caught off guard when she blew up at him for saving her from the drunkard (P.S. She leaves her breast exposed for a surprisingly long time! [P.P.S.—Is her exposed breast really necessary to this scene, or is that something that should be left to the director?]). Sure, he went a little off the handle, but she probably still should have been at least a little thankful. The first time we see her, we don't actually know that she and Henry have a history, so when he approaches her and starts making rude jokes about her tomatoes, I just kind of hate him a little. Of course, given their relationship, his comments aren't necessarily inappropriate, and yet, given his “strong” religious convictions... I think it might solve a lot of the problems if we see them meeting and getting to know one another a little. It might give Brie a chance to develop some context re: her reaction to the beating, and it would also give us a chance to see Henry being charming and convicted instead of whiny and wishy-washy.
Back to the idea of heroes and conviction: A hero for me isn’t necessarily someone who gives up on his convictions for the convenience of the situation, it’s
(1) someone who stands by his increasingly difficult-to-stand-by convictions despite everything and triumphs because of his dedication.
Or,
(2) it’s someone who lives by tenants that he feels he should believe in, begins to fear that they are wrong, challenges them despite the social difficulties that proves for him, and triumphs because he is willing to strive for what he ACTUALLY believes in even when it differs with what society believes.
Either he is a pacifist whose dedication to his pacifism helps him to reach his goals, or, he’s a soldier who chooses pacifism because a pretty girl teaches him about it and it turns out to be the truth he was looking for and it helps him to reach his goals. What shouldn’t happen:
(3) He’s a pacifist among soldiers and he learns that pacifism is wrong which leads to a triumphant I-told-you-so moment from the other soldiers.
Or,
(4) He’s a pacifist who decides to try out soldiering and returns to pacifism in a triumphant “Oh, I really kinda messed that up, sorry, here I am right where I started except that now I’m a hypocrite, but at least I have this meaningless Congressional Medal of Honor” moment.
Now, I think you were probably shooting for a #2, but by my reading, it comes out as either a 3 or more likely, 4, depending on what exactly he has learned at the ending, which is unclear for me. The problem with a #2 in this situation is that it can’t work in your setting, simply because challenging one’s personal belief in pacifism makes the life of a soldier EASIER, not more difficult, which makes for a pretty unlikeable protagonist.
Smaller notes:
I think it would be more effective when Carson shoots himself in the leg if we don’t already know that he’s shot himself in the foot in the past. Characters are more interesting when their arguments are valid, and early knowledge of Carson’s d-baggery invalidates his argument, which probably shouldn’t happen until the end when Henry’s argument becomes the only valid one.
You list a “series of shots” on page 68, that should probably actually be a series of scenes. “Series of shots” to me denotes raw imagery, for example: A. A field covered in snow. B. A vineyard, grapes frozen on the vine C. Three sunbathing beauties, immobilized in a block of ice. Your shots, on the other hand, show your characters doing things, so it looks like cheating for space.
I really like Koslovsky. I think we should see more of him.
The good news: You have the basis of a really good story here, with great ideas for characters, great imagery, and an interesting setting. You certainly have a knack for describing action, and as Oz pointed out earlier, your action descriptions are often poetic and very evocative.
The problems I see in your script are simply issues of character likeability and a lack of clear goals for them. I would recommend going back to your basic arcs and doing a little clean-up before you pound out the next draft. And unless you specifically ask me not to read it because you think I’m a complete tool now, I’m looking forward to the next draft.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to read and critique your work. If you want anything clarified or have any questions, feel free to drop me a line.
Clay
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oz
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by oz on Jan 25, 2012 0:13:52 GMT -5
Interesting critique, Clay. I'm intrigued by your points on Mike's script not to come to his defense, but to discuss in more detail because I read the script and viewed it so differently. Which is why there are like ten movies up for best picture at the Oscars now; subjectivity is so difficult to categorize qualitatively.
I understand what you're saying about Henry, yet I saw it clearly as (per your examples) #2 but disagree with your summarization that the pacifism makes the soldier's life easier. I saw Henry evoked by his passion for Brie and it frightened him. He didn't simply resign himself to no longer believing in the teachings he held so dear. I thought the problem was that he was like the animals he caged for their own protection---out of his cage (religious belief) he was subjected to a world which required violence and his inner battle raged. It made me wonder, was he truly a pacifist or simply living what he was taught--which can be 2 opposing lives. Out in the big, mean world, I felt it was an impossibility to maintain that lifestyle because of his love for the woman in THAT environment.
And I guess because I had that singular question--was he truly a pacifist or just a good boy---it made the story that much more compelling for me. There should be a subjective question when we read/view that keeps us wondering about the story in the only way we can; through our own experiences.
Completely respect your view, I just giggled when I realized how differently we dissected Henry's pathos. It can only mean one thing; we were not raised in the same family, attended the same schools or, probably, belong to the same political party ; ) Just kidding. But we saw two, completely different films in our heads when we read it and I think that's great. Mike's script is probably better than either of us realized!! ; )
Anyway, thanks for the stimulating post. Enjoyed it!
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Post by clayjs on Jan 25, 2012 11:00:46 GMT -5
Good points, Oz. As I say, I'm learning, and I might well have missed some striking character depth in my read. At this point, I stand by my critique, even though I kinda felt like a jerk for posting such an overwhelmingly 'constructive' one. Just wanted to clarify a couple of things: In reference to the beginning of your second paragraph, I did say that CHALLENGING a belief in pacifism makes a soldier's life easier, not pacifism itself. Also, in reference to the subjective question of Henry's two possible beliefs, I agree that some subjectivity is important, I just don't think the main conflict can be left subjective. However, it is that very subjectivity which is fueling this discussion, and making this script, and its ideas, more fascinating to me by the minute. Hypothetically speaking, It makes me wonder if it's possible to write a script or make a film where the meaning of the ending is as polarizing as any political issue; where two completely opposing sides, with two opposite sets of blinders, can embrace it while seeing it completely differently from one another and not admitting any alternative view as valid. I suddenly have a new goal in life. Imagine how powerful (not to mention profitable) a film would be if it could spark the same kind of debate, on the same scale, as say abortion/anti-abortion, or creation/evolution. Hmmm... Clay
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oz
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by oz on Jan 25, 2012 11:39:21 GMT -5
HA! Clay, you crack me up ; )
I don't think you missed anything in your read. It spoke to us differently; thus my point.
And, yes, I over-simplified your pacifist/soldier point. But I do believe the main conflict can be left subjective. I think in literary prose it's evident. Perhaps that is also why so many novels are adapted and why there's often an uproar as to how far the screenplay strayed from the book.
I don't know if I'm smart enough to pull that off intentionally but I encourage you to go for it! It would be incredibly powerful AND profitable. ; ) Keep me in the loop; this is going to be fun!
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Post by churnage on Jan 25, 2012 22:54:41 GMT -5
Mike,
I'm gonna have to do this in parts. I like what I've read so far. Got up to page 28.
Concept
You have a pacifist in a war, so you have inherent conflict.
The Writing
Clean, crisp descriptions. Sharp dialogue. Interesting characters.
One Slight Issue / Minor Inconsistency
--P. 20, Why is Henry "astonished" when Koslovsky mentions the German incident? Henry's already taken shit for it earlier at the front when the other guy shoved his face in the dirty water.
Solution: Maybe it's as simple as changing the word "astonished" to "embarrassed".
Little Stuff (Typos, Grammar, etc)
--Only one space after a period.
--P. 3, hyphenate "horse-drawn"
--P.5, "nowhere" is one word
--P.7, hyphenate "mud-encrusted"
--P. 8, hyphenate "ever-present"
--P. 12, delete "looking" after "haggard"
--P. 13, delete "First Aid Station" from description; repeats Slug Line.
--Add comma between "dry" & "thanks"
--hyphenate "lice-filled'
--P. 17, capitalize "STITCH" & "FIRE" for emphasis
--P. 18, capitalize "ERUPT"
--P. 20, hyphenate "mule-drawn"
--P. 23, "GUNFIRE" is one word
--P. 26, insert comma between "boys" & "Krieger"
--P. 28, lower-case "great"
That's it for now. Will read some more tomorrow.
Greg
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Post by churnage on Jan 26, 2012 20:01:15 GMT -5
Here's my post today. I got up to page 54. It's moving along briskly... but I'm not sure where it's going. But I want to find out.
The scene on P. 28 between Brie & Henry seems a little too on the nose.
(Note: My page numbers last night and tonight might be one off. I was looking at the top of the PDF -- 28 out of 101 [which includes the title page]; instead of the actual page number. Sorry 'bout that.)
--P. 28, What about the language difference between Brie & Henry?
--P. 34, insert comma between "you" & "I" (Brie, bottom of page)
--P. 36, replaced 2nd "Opens" with "Then"
--capitalize "BELCHES"
--P. 37, hyphenate "four-course"
--P. 38, capitalize "GUZZLE
--P. 39, lower-case "great'
--P. 41-42, nice short, poetic descriptions
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mscherer
Full Member
Learn. Teach. Do.
Posts: 172
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Post by mscherer on Jan 27, 2012 8:32:08 GMT -5
@clay.... thanks for your very extensive notes -- all will be considered. oz... thanks to you again. churnage... thanks for pointing this stuff out to me. Your comments lead me to believe I did not run A Soldier's Honor through my usual process of creating an RTF (Rich Text Format) of the script, open that with MS Word, then let word find the discrepancies for me. I shall get right on it! Thanks again. Keep Writing!
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Post by churnage on Jan 29, 2012 11:53:04 GMT -5
Got up to p. 82.
Like Koslovsky a lot. Good scene with Henry killing the sniper.
--P. 56, hypenate "man-made"
--insert comma between "away" & "thousands"
--P. 57 Delete "End Series of Shots" -- not necessary. Next Slug Line tells you that.
--P. 58, add question mark to "Why don't you go visit your girl?"
--P. 64, inset comma between "Brie" & "what"
--P. 66, hyphenate "leather-tough"
--P. 67, Delete "End Series of Shots"
--P. 68, hypenate "hate-filled"
--P. 70, insert comma between "Brie" & "he'
--P. 71, why does she "run off"? Couldn't she disappear in the back of her father's store? Or hurry off?
--P. 72, lowercase "great coats" -- is it one word?
--P. 74, is it "wield" instead of "yield"?
--P. 78, insert comma between "flash" & "Henry"
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Post by churnage on Jan 30, 2012 23:01:56 GMT -5
Mike,
Just finished it. Nice job.
What I Liked:
The writing was crisp, powerful and punchy. Strong concept -- a pacifist stuck in a war. Inherent conflict. The thing moved along quickly. Liked Koslovsky's character a lot.
What Needs Work:
A bit predictable. Seems like I've seen this before. Didn't have that extra something.
The heart of the movie is Henry and Brie's relationship, but we never see their true passion -- it all occurs off screen. Maybe we need to see him wooing her at the beginning of the relationship -- all that nervousness, awkwardness and all those missteps. And then how he little by little wins her love -- only to lose it all when he beats up the drunken soldier. By showing how he won her love, that jacks up the stakes. Right now, the stakes seem muted.
Just my two cents,
Greg
PS Minor edits below
--P. 85, insert comma between "mind" & "just'
--P. 90, insert comma between "mind" & "the"
--P. 91, "motherlode" one word?
--P. 93, hyphenate "carnival-like"
--P. 96, lower-case "staff'
--capitalize, "Both men LAUGH."
--P. 97, hyphenate "horse-drawn"
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mscherer
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Post by mscherer on Feb 12, 2012 9:56:05 GMT -5
Thanks, Greg. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into reading my script.
Keep Writing!
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