See Me Twice

[ihop]

Hi folks

New member here. I'm an English screenwriter and am interested to know what you make of my (fairly short - 72 pages) screenplay.
It's a drama which was a finalist in the Red Planet Prize over here and has since been improved.
Would leave to hear what you think. Here's the synopsis:

Synopsis
Robbie and Jo take a short break at the seaside in an attempt to resurrect their faltering marriage. In the pub one evening, Jo drunkenly peruses the old photos on the wall when she sees a photograph containing a man who is the absolute spitting image of Robbie. The landlord doesn’t know any of the faces in the picture but suggests they should return the following lunchtime to discuss with Ken, a regular for over 30 years.
When Ken sees Robbie he is clearly incensed at the sight of him which results in Robbie being forcibly ejected from the pub. A series of events occur which leave Robbie becoming more and more fixated with his ‘double’ (Frank) and the parallels their lives seems to have taken. The fact that Frank disappeared without trace on the day Robbie was born only adds to the mystery.
As Jo and Robbie’s marriage continues to crumble, we are also introduced to a number of colourful characters who all impact on their lives in some way – Max, the fifties throwback who follows Robbie everywhere in his old Astra. Daisy, the larger than life café owner who perhaps knows more than she’s letting on about Frank. Kate, the wife of Jo’s boss, Will who seems to have a fixation for Robbie leading to more marital unrest between the two main protagonists, and Carol, Frank’s menopausal wife who offers more information about Frank’s earlier obsession with his ‘double’ who, it turns out, disappeared on the day of Frank’s birth and at the exact same age. This leaves Robbie to conclude that he will perhaps suffer the same fate on his birthday in just a few days time….
Robbie and Jo’s relationship deteriorates further and becomes more entangled with Kate and Will under a cloud of suspicion on all sides. Finally, the day before Robbie’s birthday, the final denouement between the four protagonists…

Attachments:

[mscherer]

Ihop,

Downloaded your script. Look forward to reading it. Should have notes for you by weekend.

Keep Writing!

[ihop]

Great. Will look forward to it!

[mscherer]

Jim,

DISCLAIMER:
Please remember anything I write is mere opinion and in no way implies my way is the correct way or even the only way. I try to respond to perceived issues by correcting them the only way I know how: according to my style of writing. You should consider what I have to say, then either ignore my suggestions (which is probably a good idea), or accept my suggestions, but modify in your own style. That said, we are off--

[overall impressions]
First things first. The script is too short. The first thing a Hollywood reader will do is check the page count. Too short or too long and you probably won’t get that read. You probably should have at least another 15-20 pages.

Loved the dialogue -- witty, charming and distinct.

Like the writing too. Well done.

See Me Twice has the potential of being a terrific story. But, the problem with your script now is that there are two stories, neither of which has a resolution:
Story A: Jo and Robbie’s relationship.
Story B: The mystery of George, Frank and Robbie.

I find story B much more intriguing and, unfortunately, you do not delve deeper into the mystery and ultimately solve it. I would have to say that the mystery, in this version of your script, is the McGuffin (a Hitchcock thing: something that seems important to the story, but really isn’t and only exists to give the characters the appearance of doing something).

I love the premise of story B and believe you should rethink See Me Twice and concentrate on the mystery.

[page by page critique]
Page 1: You repeat yourself. Your SLUG LINE and the first sentence of your action tell us the same thing: SUBURBAN STREET.

Also, SUBURBAN implies CLOSE TO THE CITY, so that bit of information isn’t really needed either.

You should provide character descriptions when you introduce your characters for the first time.

After your SLUG for the UNDERGROUND GARAGE you write:
The lift doors pings. Opens.

Because DOORS is plural it should be:

The lift doors PING. Open.

Page 2: I know this story takes place in the UK, but your American audience/reader will not know what FREE ON A GREEN means (what does it mean?).

Page 3: Again, no descriptions when you introduce new characters.

Page 4: you transition from 1979 in one scene back to the present without letting the reader know. Confused.
Again, new characters, no descriptions. Who are these people?

Page 5: you write:
The two of them stroll back towards the promenade.

The two of who? Let your reader know as soon as possible which characters are in the scene. You could just as easily write:
Jo and Robbie stroll back towards the promenade.
Fewer words too.

Page 13: Again, need a better transition between EXT. TROOP SHIP (1947) - DAY and INT. TATTY BED & BREAKFAST, BEDROOM - DAY. Let the reader know we are back in the present.

Also, it’s 1947 -- two years after the war -- would the troops really be TIRED BUT VICTORIOUS?

Page 19: you write:
Harvey strolls off, shakes his head, gobs on the floor.

Aren’t they outside? Shouldn’t that be sidewalk, or concrete, or ground? A nit, I know, but it took me out the story.

Again, I know this is a British story, but no one (including me) will have a clue as to what...
She talks ten to the dozen, drops her aitches when they’re needed, adds them in when they’re not.
...means.

Page 24: Transition again. Gotta tell the reader we are back in the PRESENT after taking us back to 1947.

Page 28: Transition again. Gotta tell the reader we are back in the PRESENT after taking us back to 1947.

Page 33: You write:
ROBBIE
Found out where his wife lives.

JO
Whose wife?

ROBBIE
Frank’s! What do you think I’ve
been doing all day?

Yet he hasn’t really done anything. He leaves during the DAY and returns home at NIGHT, and hasn’t yet visited this woman or figured out where she lives. So what was Robbie doing all day?

His dialogue and the fact that he is only now going through phone book to find her address doesn’t make any sense: Story logic.

Page 34: You transition from a scene that takes place at NIGHT directly to one that takes place during the DAY:
INT. JO & ROBBIE’S APARTMENT - NIGHT
.
.
.
He tears the page out of the phone book, grabs the keys.

INT. FORD FOCUS - DAY
Robbie gets back in the car, puts a line through another
address on the page from the phone book.

Story logic.

Page 38: Use a coma when addressing someone:
ROBBIE
What’s in the case, Carol? Not...
ROBBIE
What’s in the case Carol?

Page 39: Transition from 1947 to PRESENT.

Page 43: when you cut to Max in his Astra you need a new SLUG line. Instead of:
EXT. SKEGNESS APPROACH ROAD - DAY

The traffic continues to tail back. About ten cars behind
Robbie is the now familiar Astra.

Inside, Max chuffs on a cigar, blows a thick cloud of smoke
out of the window.

You should write:
EXT. SKEGNESS APPROACH ROAD - DAY

The traffic continues to tail back. About ten cars behind
Robbie is the now familiar Astra.

INT. BLUE ASTRA - SAME
Max chuffs on a cigar, blows a thick cloud of smoke out of the window.

Page 48: Confusing SLUG LINE. You set the scene as an EXTERIOR, but then go directly to Mas sitting IN his Astra. The SLUG should have been:
INT. BLUE ASTRA - SKEGNESS SEAFRONT - DAY

Page 53: Story logic. George was on the ship in 1947, yet you have it bombed out of the water in Spain. The war had been over for two years!
ROBBIE
According to Frank’s notes there’s
definitely something about George
leaving one ship at a port in Spain
and getting transferred to another.
The ship he’d just left was bombed
out of the water later the same
day. No survivors.

Page 59: Found this bit confusing. Is VAUXHAUL ASTRA the same as Max’s BLUE ASTRA? If so, why change up the description? And why, if it is an INTERIOR shot, do you write:
Max parks a fair distance back, watches Robbie exit the shop
with a bunch of flowers in hand.
Am I missing something?

Page 60: you write:
Daisy clocks Carol. They take each other in.

In the US, clocks means hits. Just an FYI...

Page 62: might want to change this:
EXT. LEAFY SUBURBAN STREET, NOTTINGHAM - DAY
The blue Astra pulls up just down from the Fisher’s house.
Max gets out, creeps up to the window, peers in.

Robbie has both hands on Kate’s shoulders. He pulls her to
him, gives her a cuddle.

Max pulls away. Seen enough. He wanders back to the car,
leans on the bonnet, dials a number, waits.
To this:

EXT. LEAFY SUBURBAN STREET, NOTTINGHAM - DAY
The blue Astra pulls up just down from the Fisher’s house.
Max gets out, creeps up to the window, peers in.

MAX’S POV
Robbie has both hands on Kate’s shoulders. He pulls her to
him, gives her a cuddle
BACK TO SCENE
Max pulls away. Seen enough. He wanders back to the car,
leans on the bonnet, dials a number, waits.

Page 68: Again, use POV here:
WILL
Take a look Robbie.

He points out of the window.

ROBBIE’S POV
Max sits on the bonnet of the Astra, gives him an apologetic wave.
BACK TO SCENE

ROBBIE
You?!

Page 70: you write:
Just about to head in after Kate, something catches Will’s
eye. He looks back up the street towards Jo.

She’s in a heap on the floor...

WILL
Jo?

This scene takes place outside, so Jo would not be a ‘heap on the floor’, she would be a HEAP ON THE GROUND. A nit.

Page 71: Don’t get the scene with Max and Daisy. Did they know each other all along? Why does this scene exist at all?

Page 72: Okay, I think I saw this coming but... the birth of Jo’s baby doesn’t fit the pattern. Jo doesn’t die in childbirth and the child will certainly know, eventually, who his father is/was.

One man’s opinion – mileage may vary – batteries not included.

[oz]

Hello, ihop, and welcome.

I read your script and want to share my notes. A couple of things first....I don't read other posts critiquing your script until after I post mine. The main reason is that I don't want to be influenced by anyone else's notes. Unfortunately, though, that means I may be repeating what others have said but that can also be a good thing. My personal rule is that I don't change anything if just one person has a problem with something but if three or more people have the same problem with a part of my script, it tells me I should consider making a change. Another thing is that I take line notes to offer an example of what I'm talking about or offer help if I have it. And, although I fail to mention this every time I critique on this board, it's always true: I'm offering you advice from my perspective and experience and am willing to help if you need it. Just as I would want from anyone reading my pages. In other words, sometimes the truth hurts but we need to hear it if we want better.

Okay, here we go! ; )

Pg1 -- I don't think you should have anything descriptive in the scene heading. That belongs in your action lines. Think of it this way: the scene heading is just a marker that shows three things--1. INT./EXT. is Inside or Outside. Someone who is interested in your script is going to count these up to make sure you have both, if it helps the story visually, and get an idea of the budget for the film. 2. What the camera sees when the scene first appears. KATE'S HOUSE. Again, this information is needed to establish the budget and continuity. 3. DAY/NIGHT You really don't need anything but these two. So looking at your first slug---EXT. KATE'S HOUSE - DAY Suburban street and Nothingham should be in the action lines.
-- Your "Quiet suburban street close to the city" sounds redundant. CLOSE TO THE CITY is, by definition, a suburb. Perhaps...Neatly trimmed hedges line the quaint suburban street. City skyline visible in the distance. ... or something like that.
--- Does it matter that Kate's a brunette? There's something to be said for letting the reader create the character's image.
--- "Lift doors pings." Reads clunky/wrong. Perhaps...lift door pings.
--- Don't understand.....bleep bleeps the boot. If he's cussing at it, give him the lines.
--- Robbie grabs the bag and marches off.....WHERE? Back to the car? In the next scene he's driving the car so I'm assuming but your line doesn't clearly convey this.

Pg2 -- Free on green? Don't know if this is British slang or an error.

Pg3 -- Probably want to put your 1979 above the action lines, not in the scene heading. OOPS---There it is in your action lines; remove from scene heading.
--- Again with the details--if the fact that the car is an Escort, is red, and has a black roof matters, fine. But this isn't a novel where you need to paint the picture; it's going to be a film. Other people will decide what color, make, model, etc. You just need to give us the facts and let us 'see' it ourselves.

Pg4 -- Tighten up your descriptions. ...paint is peeling and there's bird shit....How about dropping this completely OR (if you insist on keeping this..)More raw wood than paint. Bird shit everywhere. Tells us all we need to know.
-- She takes a few snaps---you forgot to tell us there was a camera until after she completes the action. This seems insignificant, a person figures it out, but it also makes the reader stop reading to figure it out and that's death for a reader--and you. You never want them to stop reading to make sense of your words.
-- Decide what you want us to see rather than giving us 4 choice....purses lips...annoyance....timid & frazzeled..worried. The actor will play it how the director wants (probably after ten takes utilizing all emotions). Just write it how you 'see' it.

Pg6 -- Money's not solution, is it---? Need a question mark after that.
--- I don't think your exposition works here on Robbie's childhood. Too on the nose and adults don't map out like that. Firgure another way for him to express how getting sent to boarding school made him feel abandoned without telling us he went to boarding school and felt abandoned.
-- forever is one word, not two
--" Makes to complain" -- British saying or error??

Pg7 -- ...cues knackered anyway... I'd drop 'anyway'.

Pg8 -- Despite himself, smiles ruefully----Despite himself indicates the smile would be genuine--ruefully indicates bitterness. Doesn't make sense.
-- ...one of them, HARVEY... I'd drop 'one of them'.

Pg9 and throughout whole script -- You use far too many adverbs. I think the rule is no more than 2 per page and try to have no more than 10 per script. In other words, avoid them like the plague. You can get away with them if you're so famous that you can sell a scribbled idea on a napkin for over a million bucks OR your script is so pristine with tone, character, dialogue, and concept that no one notices. I don't think there's anyone on these boards who qualifies for either so I'd figure out how to write with as few as possible. Forcing yourself to learn to write without them will also make you a better writer overall.

Pg10 -- Robbie looks awkward----Is his appearance awkward or his expression? There's no way to tell by this line.

Pg13-- Again with the date in your scene heading. Put it as a stand alone below the scene heading if the audience won't see it, as a SUPER if the audience will and in the action lines to assist with setting tone/time. Also, regarding your flashbacks, you never indicate when we are BACK TO PRESENT which makes the reader stop to try to figure out if we're still in 1947 or if we missed the BACK TO PRESENT or RELAPS or whatever slug you want to use to bring us back.
--- There is a lot of passive writing throughout the script. Try to learn more active phrasing to keep the reader pulled in. EXAMPLES--Clothes are strewn everywhere -- Clothes everywhere. AND Some knickers adorn the headboard -- Knickers hang on the headboard.

Pg14 -- Jo opens her eyes---PASSIVE Jo's eyes open ---ACTIVE
-- Doing too much of the actors' job still. How about -- She teases. Pokes him in the ribs. That's all you need here.

Pg16 -- Really getting tired of hearing about how drunk they got. We saw it. No need to keep talking about it. Drunks don't really go on and on about every drink they had.
--- Need to work hard on these adverbs. "Rob & Jo enter pub wearily, drag themselves slowly" 2 in 1 sentence!

Pg17 -- I counted 10 adverbs on this page!
-- find another word for apoplectic; makes the reader stop. Big words are for novels.
-- "Gently pushes him towards then out." Need to rewrite or, at the very least, insert a comma.

Pg19-- No clue what the last line on this page means. If you're just going to submit scripts to people in Britian, that's cool. But otherwise you need to be careful about unfamiliar slang. If only because it makes the reader stop reading when it's so unfamiliar.

Pg20--Sheenan's line ... not a punk rocker===What? It just didn't make sense. If you're trying to establish the difference between Sheena and Daisy or the surroundings (or whatever), it needs to be clear. This just sounds like she's high or schitzophrenic (I have no idea how to spell that!) or something???

Pg 21 --- I'm on page 21 and I have no clue what the point of the story is. That's a problem. I have no clue what the past has to do with the opening/present scenes. That's a problem. I don't have any investment in your characters because I have no clue what they want. That's a problem. I don't know what they're trying to do and why. Too many of your characters sound identical to each other; no one's distinct. You could condense what you have right now with crisper writing and be at page 12. As Will says on pg 21---WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT? And I'm with Robbie when he responds---NO IDEA. If I don't know what's going on by page 10 or 15, why am I going to keep reading? An audience would walk out by now.

Pg13 -- Your timelines are too confusing without BACK TO PRESENT. As it is, on page 3 you took us back to 1979 but are we still in 1979 at the pier? On page 13 you take us to 1947 but are we still in 1947 at the B&B? The way it's written I can't tell if you're taking the characters back in time or if there are somehow cell phones in 1947. And since I still can't tell what the story's about, I'm open to the possibility, but I just can't tell.

Pg22 -- "Your birthday do" What?
-- Throughout the script the dialogue should be moving the story forward. Everyone puts in some fun character stuff but your characters talk A LOT about nothing. Having a little banter back and forth helps establish character but if what they're saying doesn't give us some momentum into the next scene, it kills your story.

Pg24 -- Counted 7 adverbs on page 24.

Pg29 -- The constant argument about the phone between Jo and Robbie is just getting annoying. A runner will show up 3-4 times in a script, not every other page/scene.

Pg38 -- Doesn't ring true that Carol would do so much damage to Frank's things but not open the case she describes as "his life". Rings more authentic that she kept everything as a sentimental gesture or she destroyed everything.

Pg56 --- This information should have come a lot earlier.

Overall, and with all due respect to Red Planet (I have no idea what Red Planet is), I understand what you wanted to do with this script but you're not there. There are no stakes until page 56. What's the impact of the three men existing? It can't just be Robbie may disappear---or at the very least, if it IS, then we need to know this around page 20. What is the impact of Robbie disappearing? Why do we care? And if you make us care, we still don't know the impact. The only impact of the other two even existing was that they left a bunch of people pissed off that they were such rascals.

The fact that the script is so short is a clear sign that your outline really needs work. I'm not sure I have any clear-cut ideas on how to make it work because I can't answer the above questions for you. As it stands, though, I don't think you have a script so much as a Twilight Zone episode. That's not meant to be offensive, but if you cleaned up everything you could get this down to 40 pages and you'd have a decent episode for a format like Twilight Zone. As a stand-alone script, it's not there.

If your intent is to get it there, then start with the outline. Act One---Man goes up a tree. Act Two---People throw rocks at him. Act Three----Man escapes (or doesn't). Figure out why he went up that tree, why people are throwing rocks at him and why he must get down (or try to get down).

If you want some help, email me or post here. Don't give up if you know in your gut that there's a story here. If you can't figure out the whole story, start over with everyone's intentions, motivation, risks. You need to know all of these things to get from FADE IN to THE END. Good luck to you and keep in touch.

[ihop]

Brilliant!
Thanks to Mike and Oz for the extensive notes – really appreciate it.
In the main I think they are fair and valid – in a few cases they were simply typos, in others there’s a British translation that doesn’t work well to ‘international’ ears.
Anyway, I have been through and addressed a lot of those issues. To others I offer reasons or explanations in BOLD below which may or may not be of use to you.
This started life as a script for TV which is why it’s possibly too ‘talky’ and I have some ideas regarding making it more visual and lengthier.
As for the ending – as it stands, it is a bit obvious (thanks Oz!) but I like the idea of leaving it fairly ambiguous (despite Mike wanting all the T’s crossed and the I’s dotted – we’re all different!).
So here are my replies to a few of your points. If the point isn’t there anymore, I’ve dealt with it one way or another!
Would love to hear back from you regarding some of the questions I've posed.
Would also love to hear from anyone else who has an opinion....!

Mike’s notes:

FREE ON A GREEN means (what does it mean?)
- IT'S A WEIGHT WATCHERS / SLIMMING WORLD TYPE REFERENCE (THOUGHT YOU HAD THOSE IN US?). A GREEN DAY IS WHEN YOU CAN EAT ANYTHING EXCEPT MEAT - CERTAIN FOOD TYPES ARE 'ALLOWED' THAT DAY.

Page 3: Again, no descriptions when you introduce new characters
- IT'S ONLY A GLANCE AT SOMEONE, WE DON'T MEET CAROL PROPERLY UNTIL 'PRESENT DAY' WHEN SHE GETS A DESCRIPTION

Page 4: you transition from 1979 in one scene back to the present without letting the reader know. Confused.
- GOOD POINT, RECTIFIED.

Again, new characters, no descriptions. Who are these people?
- ALREADY MET KATE IN THE OPENING SCENE - WILL GETS A BRIEF INTRO HERE.

Page 19: you write:
Harvey strolls off, shakes his head, gobs on the floor.
Aren’t they outside? Shouldn’t that be sidewalk, or concrete, or ground? A nit, I know, but it took me out the story.
- I THINK IT'S NORMAL OVER HERE TO SAY FLOOR ACTUALLY HOWEVER I TAKE YOUR POINT AND WILL CHANGE IT JUST TO BE SURE.

Again, I know this is a British story, but no one (including me) will have a clue as to what...She talks ten to the dozen, drops her aitches when they’re needed, adds them in when they’re not....means.
HA! TEN TO THE DOZEN MEANS SHE TALKS SO FAST SHE ALMOST TRIPS OVER HER WORDS AS SHE SAYS THEM AND DROPS HER AITCHES MEANS DOESN'T PRONOUNCE AN 'H' AT THE START OF A WORD IE. 'ORRIBLE 'OTEL WHICH IS A VERY ENGLISH WAY OF SPEAKING. SOME PEOPLE HOWEVER ADD THEM IN WHEN THEY AREN'T NEEDED TOO - THE 'HANGLE' IS 45 DEGREES - I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY DO THIS BUT IT MARKS A PARTICULAR TYPE OF PERSON OVER HERE.
THERE YOU GO, A LESSON IN COLLOQUIAL ENGLISH AT NO EXTRA CHARGE!

Page 43: when you cut to Max in his Astra you need a new SLUG line. Instead of:
EXT. SKEGNESS APPROACH ROAD - DAY

The traffic continues to tail back. About ten cars behind Robbie is the now familiar Astra.
Inside, Max chuffs on a cigar, blows a thick cloud of smoke out of the window.

You should write:
EXT. SKEGNESS APPROACH ROAD - DAY

The traffic continues to tail back. About ten cars behind Robbie is the now familiar Astra.

INT. BLUE ASTRA - SAME
Max chuffs on a cigar, blows a thick cloud of smoke out of the window.

- EXCEPT I SEE IT AS AN EXT SCENE BECAUSE WE VIEW HIM FROM OUTSIDE

Page 48: Confusing SLUG LINE. You set the scene as an EXTERIOR, but then go directly to Mas sitting IN his Astra. The SLUG should have been:
INT. BLUE ASTRA - SKEGNESS SEAFRONT - DAY

- DITTO

Page 53: Story logic. George was on the ship in 1947, yet you have it bombed out of the water in Spain. The war had been over for two years!
ROBBIE
According to Frank’s notes there’s definitely something about George leaving one ship at a port in Spain and getting transferred to another. The ship he’d just left was bombed out of the water later the same day. No survivors.

- THAT REFERS TO AN EARLIER EVENT DURING THE WAR

Page 59: Found this bit confusing. Is VAUXHAUL ASTRA the same as Max’s BLUE ASTRA? If so, why change up the description? And why, if it is an INTERIOR shot, do you write:
Max parks a fair distance back, watches Robbie exit the shop with a bunch of flowers in hand.
Am I missing something?

IT'S FROM MAX'S POV FROM INSIDE THE CAR. TRUE ABOUT THE DESCRIPTION OF THE CAR THOUGH. RECTIFIED!

Page 60: you write:
Daisy clocks Carol. They take each other in.

In the US, clocks means hits. Just an FYI...

- SAME HERE TOO BUT IT ALSO MEANS 'SEES' OR 'NOTICES' - RECTIFIED!

Page 62: might want to change this:
EXT. LEAFY SUBURBAN STREET, NOTTINGHAM - DAY
The blue Astra pulls up just down from the Fisher’s house.
Max gets out, creeps up to the window, peers in.

Robbie has both hands on Kate’s shoulders. He pulls her to him, gives her a cuddle.

Max pulls away. Seen enough. He wanders back to the car,leans on the bonnet, dials a number, waits.
To this:

EXT. LEAFY SUBURBAN STREET, NOTTINGHAM - DAY
The blue Astra pulls up just down from the Fisher’s house. Max gets out, creeps up to the window, peers in.

MAX’S POV
Robbie has both hands on Kate’s shoulders. He pulls her to him, gives her a cuddle
BACK TO SCENE
Max pulls away. Seen enough. He wanders back to the car, leans on the bonnet, dials a number, waits.

Page 68: Again, use POV here:
WILL
Take a look Robbie.

He points out of the window.

ROBBIE’S POV
Max sits on the bonnet of the Astra, gives him an apologetic wave.
BACK TO SCENE

ROBBIE
You?!

- NOT SURE ABOUT THIS. I'VE BEEN STRONGLY ADVISED AGAINST THE USE OF POV AS IT IS SEEN AS OUTDATED AND ALSO AS DOING THE DIRECTOR'S JOB FOR HIM.

Page 72: Okay, I think I saw this coming but... the birth of Jo’s baby doesn’t fit the pattern. Jo doesn’t die in childbirth and the child will certainly know, eventually, who his father is/was.

- TRUE. HMMM.....


Oz’s notes:

Pg1 -- I don't think you should have anything descriptive in the scene heading. That belongs in your action lines. Think of it this way: the scene heading is just a marker that shows three things--1. INT./EXT. is Inside or Outside. Someone who is interested in your script is going to count these up to make sure you have both, if it helps the story visually, and get an idea of the budget for the film. 2. What the camera sees when the scene first appears. KATE'S HOUSE. Again, this information is needed to establish the budget and continuity. 3. DAY/NIGHT You really don't need anything but these two. So looking at your first slug---EXT. KATE'S HOUSE - DAY Suburban street and Nothingham should be in the action lines.
-- Your "Quiet suburban street close to the city" sounds redundant. CLOSE TO THE CITY is, by definition, a suburb. Perhaps...Neatly trimmed hedges line the quaint suburban street. City skyline visible in the distance. ... or something like that.
FAIR ENOUGH. NOT SURE IT MATTERS TOO MUCH BUT I TAKE YOUR POINT

--- Does it matter that Kate's a brunette? There's something to be said for letting the reader create the character's image.
HA! MIKE THINKS NOT ENOUGH DESCRIPTION, YOU THINK TOO MUCH! JUST SHOWS HOW MUCH VARIATION THERE CAN BE IN OPINION.

--- "Lift doors pings." Reads clunky/wrong. Perhaps...lift door pings.
TYPO - WELL NOTICED!

--- Don't understand.....bleep bleeps the boot. If he's cussing at it, give him the lines.
BLEEP BLEEPS WITH THE CLICKY KEY THING WE ALL HAVE THESE DAYS INSTEAD OF KEYS

--- Robbie grabs the bag and marches off.....WHERE? Back to the car? In the next scene he's driving the car so I'm assuming but your line doesn't clearly convey this.

Pg2 -- Free on green? Don't know if this is British slang or an error. AS ABOVE IN MIKE’S NOTES - WEIGHT WATCHERS / SLIMMING WORLD TERMINOLOGY

Pg9 and throughout whole script -- You use far too many adverbs. I think the rule is no more than 2 per page and try to have no more than 10 per script. In other words, avoid them like the plague. You can get away with them if you're so famous that you can sell a scribbled idea on a napkin for over a million bucks OR your script is so pristine with tone, character, dialogue, and concept that no one notices. I don't think there's anyone on these boards who qualifies for either so I'd figure out how to write with as few as possible. Forcing yourself to learn to write without them will also make you a better writer overall. INTERESTING. NEVER HEARD THIS ADVERB RULE BEFORE AND I'VE READ A LOT OF 'HOW TO WRITE A SCRIPT' BOOKS. WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM?

--- There is a lot of passive writing throughout the script. Try to learn more active phrasing to keep the reader pulled in. EXAMPLES--Clothes are strewn everywhere -- Clothes everywhere. AND Some knickers adorn the headboard -- Knickers hang on the headboard. I LIKE THAT - GOOD TIP.

Pg19-- No clue what the last line on this page means. If you're just going to submit scripts to people in Britian, that's cool. But otherwise you need to be careful about unfamiliar slang. If only because it makes the reader stop reading when it's so unfamiliar.
DEALT WITH ABOVE IN RESPONSE TO MIKE

Pg20--Sheenan's line ... not a punk rocker===What? It just didn't make sense. If you're trying to establish the difference between Sheena and Daisy or the surroundings (or whatever), it needs to be clear. This just sounds like she's high or schitzophrenic (I have no idea how to spell that!) or something???
SHEENA IS A PUNK ROCKER - SONG BY THE RAMONES - DON'T TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW IT - THEY'RE AN AMERICAN BAND!

Pg 21 --- I'm on page 21 and I have no clue what the point of the story is. That's a problem. I have no clue what the past has to do with the opening/present scenes. That's a problem. I don't have any investment in your characters because I have no clue what they want. That's a problem. I don't know what they're trying to do and why. Too many of your characters sound identical to each other; no one's distinct. You could condense what you have right now with crisper writing and be at page 12. As Will says on pg 21---WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT? And I'm with Robbie when he responds---NO IDEA. If I don't know what's going on by page 10 or 15, why am I going to keep reading? An audience would walk out by now. NOT SURE ABOUT THIS BUT I WILL RE-READ.

Pg22 -- "Your birthday do" What?
MORE ENGLISH COLLIQUIALISMS - A BIRTHDAY 'DO' MEANS 'EVENT' OR 'PARTY', SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

-- Throughout the script the dialogue should be moving the story forward. Everyone puts in some fun character stuff but your characters talk A LOT about nothing. Having a little banter back and forth helps establish character but if what they're saying doesn't give us some momentum into the next scene, it kills your story. BIRTHDAY REFERENCE IS NECESSARY TO ESTABLISH THE FORTHCOMING DATE WHICH HAS SIGNIFICANCE LATER

Pg56 --- This information should have come a lot earlier. WHY? I LIKE TO DRIP FEED THE FACTS RATHER THAN SPELL IT ALL OUT AT THE OUTSET OTHERWISE THERE'S NO MYSTERY....

[oz]

Hope the notes help, ihop.
I don't believe Mike was saying more description, I believe he was saying consistent description. I don't care how much description you use; just saying that we sure can use a break when getting read and having a guy who just broke up with his brunette wife, whom he now thinks is the incarnate of all evil, read your words about the quaint, tender brunette might not fly. Clear any obstacles. Let the reader create the image unless it's important to the story that she's brunette. Just my opinion.

The bleep bleeps doesn't read like he's using a car fob and why would he use a car fob on a tire boot? I think part of this is our language problem and part of this is a rushed sentence that isn't clear.

Couple of resources for you regarding active writing/no adverbs: 1-http://www.mythmakerjohn.com/craft_notes.htm. 2-Your Screenplay Sucks by Bill Aikers although I think he has something going online, too. These were just the first two I thought of but the genereal belief is out there everywhere.

Of course I know what a punk rocker is and I know who the Ramones are. I was refering to her line: "But I'm not a punk rocker in case you're wondering." Who would say that as they're greeting a customer? Didn't ring authentic for me.

The fact that you mention this was written for television clears a lot up for me. In my opinion, though, you still have a problem with not enough meaningful dialogue, not captivating the reader early on, and not giving us the information we need to want to continue reading. If we write just for what we imagine the story will look like on the screen, we'll never make it in this business because you must start with a reader. The reader picks up hundreds of scripts a month that are crap. If your writing or scene set up or dialogue or anything looks just like the other crap they've gone through in that month, they will never continue to read to find the gem in your pages.

Again, just my opinion. Good luck to you.

[clayjs]

ihop,

Just downloaded and looking forward to it. I'll probably get you some notes by Monday. Thanks for putting your work out there (sorry it's taken me so long to get to it).

Clay

[ihop]

Great, thanks Clay.
I'll wait to see what you have to say and then take your notes in conjunction with other readers before attempting a further revision.

ihop
(not the restaurant - I had no idea it even existed until this week!)

[clayjs]

ihop,

Really loved your screenplay. Thanks so much for letting me read it.

As I say in all of these, I only take cursory notes, if any, the first time I read anything, so I'll mostly have general responses rather than line notes. Also, I'm a pretty complete beginner at this, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, since it's mostly just gut reaction.

That said, I don't really know that I'm qualified to be very constructive with this one. It's very good in a way that few of the amateur screenplays I've read are. You have a fascinating concept that's treated well, but it doesn't overwhelm your story. You have a strong, clear voice that makes you fun to read. Your characters are interesting, individual, flawed, and dynamic. Your pacing is good. Your mystery builds consistently and has satisfying reveals that are logically necessary but not obvious. Your ending specifically answers the question posed without relying on or discounting supernatural intervention. It's both specific and vague in a very satisfying way. Overall, I'd say it's pretty fantastic, and the best assembled script I've seen on this forum.

As always, there are a few notes, because otherwise I'm not being helpful at all:

On page 10, Robbie tells a joke and Jo remarks on how funny it is. I find it's generally bad form to congratulate yourself on your own joke. It tends to break the fourth wall for me. A hearty laugh from Jo is probably good enough, then you can still have Harvey understand it several pages later. HE can say it's funny, because he's slow enough that you've established him as unreliable.

On page 42, Jo's speech goes on a little too long. The "Things were already pretty bad between us. This weirdness just makes it worse. Our marriage is at stake here," is way too on the nose. You've established your characters as people who don't really say what they're thinking. Here, she says EXACTLY what she's thinking and spells out the subtext of every scene up to this point. Seems to me these three sentences can just be cut without losing any information.

I'm not really sure I get the connection between the lorries dumping their loads on cars to everything else. Maybe I just missed it?

There is one logical flaw I caught in the whole set up: George, Frank, and Robbie's mothers put "father unknown" on their birth certificates, but I don't get the impression that Jo will do that (At least assuming she's really not sleeping with Will). It's true she's expected to die in childbirth and might not have the opportunity to fill in the birth certificate, but I don't see any reason why Will or Kate couldn't pass that information along.

So, if Jo and Robbie both started staying out late and having secret conversations because of the whole perceived cheating thing--Robbie was helping Kate because she thought Will was cheating; Will was helping Jo because she thought Robbie was cheating--who started staying out late first? Will or Robbie? And why?

Anyway, thanks again for a very good read. If you post a future draft, I'll try to be more line-by-liney, since my big points will have already been addressed or dismissed. Sorry if I repeated anything anyone else said, I don't read other responses before I comment, although now that I'm done I'm pretty fascinated to see what everyone else said. Any questions, hit me back, and good luck with everything!

Clay

[ihop]

Clay,

Great notes and thanks so much for the compliments.
I think you make valid points about those pieces of dialogue on p10 and p42 and there's definitely an issue with the slightly unsatisfactory flawed ending - that's been pointed out by others too.

All in all I think all the comments I've received from everyone will help tremendously with the next draft. I already know how to address the majority of points but I think I need to think long and hard about the ending and try to find a better conclusion. Until I can work that out I won't even begin the next draft of course.

So, if any of you who've read it have any bright ideas about how to conclude they would be more than welcome (I know that's a bit cheeky but you never know...!) but in the meantime, thanks for all of your notes, they're much appreciated.

ihop